Beton.win Casino - Игрок требует возврата средств после проблем с блокировкой аккаунта.

Hello,

My name is CG, I'm from Chile,

I request a refund of all my losses since February 6th, a total of 415,000 CLP.

It turns out that on February 6th of this year I contacted BetOnWin by email requesting the permanent self-exclusion of my account, since they were not paying attention to me in the live chat, and the page does not have a section to do it manually, the reason for the self-exclusion is because I have a serious gambling problem, and I have told them this repeatedly.

After weeks, on February 23rd, they confirmed that my account had been excluded. I was clean for several months, until July 22nd, when I was able to access my account, logging in as if nothing had happened, and I started betting again. From July 23rd onwards, I requested that my account be excluded, and on July 24th, I contacted BetOnWin by email to request exclusion due to gambling addiction, but they ignored me. I insisted for several days in a row, and today (May 16th, 2025), looking at old emails, I realized that my account was supposedly already excluded (since February 23rd). I saw that the messages were just as negligent as the current ones. I have plenty of evidence that they ignored me when I begged them to exclude my account due to gambling addiction.

Therefore, in addition to permanent exclusion, I am now requesting a refund of losses incurred since February 6th (the date I contacted you by email requesting permanent exclusion). I calculated the losses, subtracting deposits and withdrawals. Between February 6th and February 22nd, I had losses totaling 106,233 CLP, and between July 22nd and August 16th (today), I had losses totaling 309,199 CLP. Adding the two periods gives a total of 415,432 CLP, but I am requesting approximately 415,000 CLP.

I find what BetOnWin is doing terrible, as there are many cases like this.

If you need more information or proof, I'd be happy to give it to you.

Hola,

me llamo C. G., soy de Chile,

Solicito un reembolso de todas mis perdidas desde el 06 de febrero, un total de 415.000 CLP.

Resulta que el 06 de febrero de este año contacté a BetOnWin por correo solicitando la autoexclusión de mi cuenta permanentemente, ya qué en el chat en vivo no me hacian caso, y la p´´agina no tiene un apartado para hacerlo manualmente, el motivo de la autoexclusion es porque tengo un grave problema de ludopatía, y se los he dicho reiteradas veces.

Después de semanas, el 23 de febrero, me confirmaron que mi cuenta había sido excluida, después estuve varios meses limpio, hasta que el 22 de julio, pude ingresar en mi cuenta, iniciando sesion como si nada, y volví a apostar, desde el 23 de julio estuve pidiendo que me excluyeran la cuenta, y el 24 de julio me contacté por correo con BetOnWin, para la exclusion por motivos de ludopatia, y no me hicieron caso, estuve insistiendo varios dias seguidos, y el día de hoy (16-05-2025), viendo correos antiguos me di cuenta que mi cuenta supuestamente ya estaba excluida (desde el 23 de febrero), y vi los mensajes que eran igual de negligentes que los de ahora, tengo muchas pruebas de que no me hicieron caso cuando yo les rogaba que me excluyeran la cuenta por problemas de ludopatía.

Por eso ahora solicito aparte de la exclusion permanente, la devolución de las perdidas desde el 06 de febrero (la vez que les contacte por correo solicitando la exclusión permanente), hice los calculos, restando los depositos y las retiradas, entre el 06-02 hasta el 22-02 tuve perdidas de un total de 106.233 CLP, y entre el 22-07 hasta el 16-08 (hoy) tuve un total de 309.199 CLP en perdidas, sumando los dos periodos da un total de 415.432 CLP, pero solicito 415.000 CLP aproximandolo.

Encuentro terrible lo que hace BetOnWin, ya que como este hay muchos casos.

Si necesitan más información o pruebas con gusto se las doy.

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Stay safe.

Hello,

Thank you very much for submitting this complaint. I'm sorry to hear about the problem you're experiencing. Please allow me to ask you a few questions to clarify your situation.

• Could you please forward me the original emails containing your self-exclusion requests, starting from February 2026, as well as your most recent conversations with the casino customer support regarding the closure of your account and your refund request? My email address is [email protected].
• Did the casino specify how long your self-exclusion would remain valid?
• Was your account reopened automatically, or did you request the casino to reopen it?
• Did you receive any emails informing you that your account was available for playing again and that your self-exclusion period had ended?

I hope we will be able to help you resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Veronika

Good morning Veronika, I already sent everything to your email, thank you very much for your attention, I await your response.

Buenos día Veronika, ya le mandé todo al correo, muchas gracias por la atención, espero una respuesta.

Dear CristobalGomez1

Thank you for your cooperation and for providing all the necessary information. I truly appreciate the time and effort you’ve taken to share everything with us so far.

Your complaint will now move to the next stage of our process and be handled by your dedicated Resolver, Martin ([email protected]). This is a standard step in our procedure, as the Resolver will take over communication with the casino directly and manage your case from this point onward.

No action is required from you right now. Your Resolver will reach out through this thread if any additional details are needed. You can rest assured that your case is in very capable hands.

I wish you the best of luck and hope your case will be resolved to your satisfaction soon.

Kind regards,

Veronika

Dear CristobalGomez1,

I am sorry to hear about your troubles. I am Martin and I will be handling your complaint from now on. As the first order of business, I would like to invite the Beton.win Casino representative to join the discussion and clarify the handling of your self-exclusion.

Dear casino representative,

could you please review this case and explain your point of view to us? Why was the closure delayed? Additionally, why was the account reopened later on?

The player’s correspondence indicates that:

1. he expressly requested permanent self-exclusion on 4 February 2026;
2. the closure was only confirmed on 23 February,
3. he was able to access the same account again on 22 July;
4. despite repeatedly requesting exclusion again, the account was not restricted until 17 August.

Please also provide the complete transaction history from 4 February until the final restriction, including dated deposits and withdrawals. The supporting records may be sent privately to me at [email protected].

Thank you in advance for providing us with your view of the issue.

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your patience and please excuse the inconvenience and delay in responding to this case.

We confirm that player ****** has been permanently excluded from our platform, as requested on August 21st under Ticket #*******, in which case it was indicated that his request would be reviewed.

He was also informed about the status of his exclusion under Ticket #*******.

We regret the delay in processing this, but we confirm that the player will no longer have access to their account indefinitely.

We remain attentive to any additional information you may need from us.

Kind regards,

Beton.win Casino

Estimados (as),

Gracias por su paciencia y disculpen las molestias y la demora en dar respuesta a este caso.

Le confirmamos que el jugador ****** ha sido excluido de nuestra plataforma de manera permanente, tal como lo solicitó el día 21 de agosto bajo el Ticket #*******, caso en el cual se le indicó que su solicitud sería revisada.

Asimismo, se le informó sobre el estado de su exclusión bajo el Ticket #*******.

Lamentamos la demora en la gestión, pero confirmamos que el jugador ya no tendrá acceso a su cuenta de manera indefinida.

Quedamos atentos a cualquier información adicional que necesiten de nuestra parte.

Saludos cordiales,

Beton.win Casino

Dear casino representative,

thank you for your message and confirming the closure.

Are you willing to provide us with the player's deposit history, so we can calculate a possible refund? Please note that without this information, the case cannot be closed as resolved.

Dear Martin,

Thank you for your message and for your patience while we thoroughly reviewed this case.

We would like to clarify that the player's account (Account number removed by Casino Guru) was indeed closed in February, as per their initial request. However, due to a system error, the player was able to regain access to their account at a later date. When the player contacted us again in August to inform us of this situation, we immediately proceeded to permanently close their account, and access remains restricted indefinitely to this day.

Regarding your request for the deposit history, we regret to inform you that, due to confidentiality and data protection policies (NDA), we are unable to share this information.

Furthermore, since the player's closure request was respected and executed as indicated, we would not be able to proceed with a refund in this case.

We understand that this situation may have caused the player inconvenience, and we apologize again for any inconvenience caused.

We greatly appreciate your understanding and that of your team in this process.

We remain available should you need anything else from us.

Kind regards,

Beton.win Casino

Estimado Martin,

Gracias por su mensaje y por su paciencia mientras revisábamos este caso a fondo.

Nos gustaría aclarar que la cuenta del jugador (Account number removed by Casino Guru) fue efectivamente cerrada en febrero, conforme a su solicitud inicial. Sin embargo, debido a un error de sistema, el jugador pudo volver a acceder a su cuenta posteriormente. Cuando el jugador nos contactó nuevamente en agosto para informarnos de esta situación, procedimos de inmediato a realizar el cierre permanente de su cuenta, acceso que hasta el día de hoy continúa restringido de forma indefinida.

Respecto a su solicitud del historial de depósitos, lamentamos informarle que, por políticas de confidencialidad y protección de datos (NDA), no nos es posible compartir esta información.

Asimismo, dado que se respetó y ejecutó la solicitud de cierre del jugador conforme a lo indicado, no nos sería posible proceder con un reembolso en este caso.

Entendemos que esta situación pudo haber generado inconvenientes al jugador, y le pedimos nuevamente disculpas por las molestias ocasionadas.

Agradecemos mucho su comprensión y la de su equipo en este proceso.

Quedamos atentos por si necesitan algo adicional de nuestra parte.

Saludos cordiales,

Beton.win Casino

Hello Martin and BetOnWin team,

Thanks for the reply, but what the casino is saying really doesn't make any sense.

First, they themselves are admitting in their message that my original self-exclusion request from February was valid and that due to a "system error" on their own website, I was able to continue logging in and placing bets. According to the Fair Play Code and Casino Guru's dispute resolution guidelines, the operator is solely responsible for ensuring that its technical exclusion tools function correctly. Casino Guru's criteria expressly state that if a casino allows deposits after a self-exclusion request due to technical platform failures, the operator must assume responsibility and refund all net deposits made from the date of that initial request.

My request for permanent exclusion due to gambling addiction was notified from my first email on February 4th, and the casino ignored me despite the seriousness of the situation, and on top of that, after I was supposedly already excluded, I was able to enter as if nothing had happened, so I request the refund of funds that entered your platform from that date (February 4th).

Second, they're lying when they say my account was closed immediately in August. On July 22nd, I sent them an email explicitly stating that I had a gambling problem and requesting permanent self-exclusion, and they only closed my account on August 21st. In other words, they let me continue playing and losing money for a whole month after I repeatedly asked them to please close my account because I have a serious gambling problem.

Finally, claiming they can't show the transaction history due to "confidentiality" is just an excuse to avoid facing the facts. The casino must disclose the total deposits and withdrawals for that period and provide refunds, because they failed in all their responsible gambling measures.

I'll wait to hear what Martin says so we can move forward with this.

Greetings.

Hola Martin y equipo de BetOnWin,

Gracias por la respuesta, pero la verdad no tiene ningún sentido lo que dice el casino.

Primero, ellos mismos están admitiendo en su mensaje que mi solicitud de cierre original de febrero era válida y que por un "error de sistema" de su propia página pude seguir entrando y apostando. De acuerdo con el Código de Juego Justo y las directrices de resolución de disputas de Casino Guru, el operador es el único responsable de que sus herramientas técnicas de exclusión funcionen. El criterio de Casino Guru establece expresamente que, si un casino permite depósitos posteriores a una solicitud de autoexclusión debido a fallas técnicas de la plataforma, el operador debe asumir la responsabilidad y reembolsar la totalidad de los depósitos netos realizados desde la fecha de esa primera solicitud.

Mi solicitud de exclusión permanente por ludopatía se notificó desde mi primer correo el 4 de febrero, y el casino no me hizo caso a pesar de la gravedad de la situación, y que más encima despues de que supuestamente ya estaba excluido después pude entrar como si nada igual, por eso solicito el reembolso de fondos que ingresaron a su plataforma a partir de esa fecha (4 de febrero).

Segundo, están mintiendo al decir que en agosto me cerraron la cuenta de inmediato. El 22 de julio les mandé un correo diciendo explícitamente que tenía problemas de ludopatía y pidiendo la autoexclusión definitiva, y recién me cerraron la cuenta el 21 de agosto. O sea, me dejaron seguir jugando y perdiendo dinero un mes entero después de insistirles todo el tiempo que por favor me excluyeran la cuenta porque tengo un grave problema con el juego.

Por último, decir que no pueden mostrar el historial por "confidencialidad" es solo una excusa para no dar la cara con los números. El casino tiene que transparentar el total de depósitos y retiros de ese periodo y hacerse cargo del reembolso, porque fallaron en todas sus medidas de juego responsable.

Quedo atento a lo que diga Martin para avanzar con esto.

Saludos.

Dear casino representative,

Thank you for your response.

Your explanation confirms the central responsible-gambling failure: the player’s account was closed following his February self-exclusion request but later became accessible again because of a system error, without any reopening request from the player. While we understand this may have been a technical issue or a misunderstanding, the fault lies with the casino. According to our values, the player is undeniably entitled to funds lost after an erroneous reopening.

Moreover, there is also a separate delay following the February request. Please reconsider the refund and provide the player’s dated deposits and withdrawals for the relevant periods so the eligible net loss can be calculated. These records may be sent privately to me at [email protected].

A general reference to confidentiality, data protection, or an NDA is not sufficient to explain why these records cannot be provided. The requested information concerns the player’s own account and is necessary to calculate the financial consequences of the admitted system error. The player initiated this complaint and authorized Casino Guru to mediate the dispute, and the records can be submitted privately rather than published in the complaint thread. If the complete transaction history cannot be shared, the casino may provide a suitably redacted statement showing the dated deposits and withdrawals for the relevant periods. If a specific legal or contractual restriction still prevents even confidential or redacted disclosure, please identify that restriction and explain how it applies to this case.

If the casino maintains its refusal, please confirm this as your final position.

Dear Martin,

We would like to clarify that we have been actively collaborating with the client regarding their account closure request and have provided them with the necessary steps to complete the process.

Our VIP Account Management Office is currently handling the request due to the client's VIP status. We are awaiting a response from the client to proceed with the temporary or permanent closure of the account, as appropriate.

We would also like to clarify that at no point has the client's request to close the account been denied. We have simply requested the necessary confirmation and supporting information to determine the type of closure requested and ensure it is processed correctly.

It is also important to note that while the account closure process was pending the customer's response, their account remained active, and they continued to contact us regarding various matters. In fact, their most recent communication concerned the status of a deposit, rather than continuing with the account closure process described above. Therefore, we understand that the customer did not take the necessary steps to complete the account closure request at that time.

We remain at your disposal to assist you and complete the account closure process as soon as we receive your confirmation and the required information.

Estimado Martín,

Nos gustaría aclarar que hemos estado colaborando activamente con el cliente en relación con su solicitud de cierre de cuenta y que se le han facilitado los pasos necesarios para completar el proceso.

Actualmente, nuestra Oficina de Gestión de Cuentas VIP se está encargando de la solicitud debido al estatus VIP del cliente. En estos momentos, estamos a la espera de una respuesta por parte del cliente para poder proceder, según corresponda, al cierre temporal o definitivo de la cuenta.

También nos gustaría aclarar que en ningún momento se ha denegado la solicitud de la clienta de cerrar la cuenta. Solo le hemos solicitado la confirmación necesaria y la información de apoyo para determinar el tipo de cierre solicitado y garantizar que se procese correctamente.

Asimismo, es importante señalar que, mientras el proceso de cierre estaba pendiente de la respuesta del cliente, su cuenta permaneció activa y él siguió poniéndose en contacto con nosotros en relación con distintos asuntos. De hecho, su comunicación más reciente se refería al estado de un ingreso, en lugar de continuar con el proceso de cierre de cuenta descrito anteriormente. Por lo tanto, entendemos que el cliente no siguió los pasos necesarios para completar la solicitud de cierre de cuenta en ese momento.

Seguimos a su disposición para atender al cliente y completar el proceso de cierre de cuenta tan pronto como recibamos su confirmación y la información requerida.

Dear casino representative,

thank you for your cooperation and swift responses so far.

The casino acknowledged that the player’s previously excluded account became accessible again because of a system error. We cannot accept the position that no refund is due merely because the original closure was initially carried out. The erroneous restoration of access is precisely the responsible-gambling failure at the center of this complaint.

There should be no ambiguity or further negotiation regarding the account’s status. Once permanent self-exclusion has been applied because of gambling addiction, it must remain in force. The VIP department should have no role in discussing continued access, retention, or temporary alternatives with the player.

Please therefore provide the casino’s final and unambiguous position:

1. Does the casino confirm that the account is now permanently closed and will remain inaccessible indefinitely?
2. Is the casino willing to refund the player’s eligible net losses incurred after the account was erroneously reopened?

If the casino is unwilling to provide the refund, please do let me know so that I can proceed with the conclusion of the complaint.

Dear Martin,

We would like to inform you that the customer’s account has been permanently suspended and will not be reactivated, as this was the customer’s request.

We understand the inconvenience this situation may have caused the customer; however, we reiterate our position that, based on the information provided in previous communications, we are unable to issue any type of refund.

We remain at your disposal and once again offer our sincere apologies for this matter. 

We remain available if you need anything else from us.

Kind regards,

Beton.win Casino

Hello Martin and BetOnWin team,

The casino's position is untenable, and I request a formal reconsideration before the mediation is concluded.

.

BetOnWin has already explicitly admitted in writing in this same thread that my February request was valid and that, due to a technical error attributable solely to their platform, I was allowed to continue depositing. Withholding funds that were deposited solely due to a failure in their own responsible gaming tools violates not only Casino Guru's Fair Gaming Code, but also the basic obligations of their operating license.

I understand that the representative responding here follows a standard script, but I ask that you escalate this case immediately to the Compliance area or the Legal Management.

If the casino maintains this refusal to refund the net balance generated during its technical failure, not only will it incur a permanent penalty in its security rating with its own admission of error publicly exposed; I will also proceed to file a formal complaint with this complete file and its written statements with the regulatory authority that issued its license.

Risking compliance audits, regulatory processes, and irreversible damage to the brand's reputation by refusing to correct an operational error that you yourselves admitted has no commercial or logical justification.

I urge BetOnWin to review its final position, make the transactions for the period transparent, and agree to the corresponding net balance refund in order to properly close this claim.

Greetings.

Hola Martin y equipo de BetOnWin,

La postura del casino es insostenible y solicito una reconsideración formal antes de que se dé por cerrada la mediación

.

BetOnWin ya admitió de forma explicita y por escrito en este mismo hilo que mi solicitud de febrero era válida y que, por un error técnico atribuible exclusivamente a su plataforma, se me permitió seguir depositando. Retener fondos que ingresaron única y exclusivamente a raíz de una falla en sus propias herramientas de juego responsable vulnera no solo el Código de Juego Justo de Casino Guru, sino también las obligaciones básicas de su licencia de operación.

Entiendo que el representante que responde aquí sigue un libreto estándar, pero les pido escalar este caso inmediatamente al área de Cumplimiento o a la Gerencia Legal.

Si el casino mantiene esta negativa a reembolsar el balance neto generado durante su falla técnica, no solo asumirán una penalización permanente en su índice de seguridad con su propia confesión de error expuesta públicamente; también procederé a elevar una denuncia formal con este expediente completo y sus declaraciones por escrito ante la autoridad reguladora que emite su licencia.

Arriesgar auditorías de cumplimiento, procesos con el regulador y un daño irreversible a la reputación de la marca por negarse a corregir un error operativo que ustedes mismos admitieron no tiene ninguna justificación comercial ni lógica.

Insto a BetOnWin a revisar su postura final, transparentar las transacciones del periodo y acordar el reembolso del balance neto correspondiente para cerrar este reclamo de manera correcta.

Saludos.

Dear casino representative,

before proceeding with the closure of this complaint and a deduction of the casino's safety index, I would like to give the casino one more opportunity to have the matter reviewed by its senior management or responsible-gambling department.

From Casino Guru’s perspective, once a player clearly requests permanent self-exclusion because of a gambling problem, the casino must restrict further gambling within a reasonable timeframe. A permanent exclusion must then remain effective indefinitely. It should not expire, be replaced with a temporary restriction, or be reversed without an appropriate basis. A technical or administrative error does not remove the casino’s responsibility for the resulting failure.

In this case, the casino confirmed that the player’s account was closed following his February request but later became accessible again because of a system error. We therefore believe that the player is entitled to:

• eligible net losses incurred after the reasonable processing period following his original February request and before the account was closed; and
• eligible net losses incurred from the moment the previously excluded account became accessible again until gambling was finally restricted.

The refund should reflect the player’s net financial loss during these periods, meaning deposits minus withdrawals. Funds successfully withdrawn or otherwise returned to the player should not be included.

If the casino decides to continue with the refund, it may provide the relevant transaction history privately, so the correct refund amount can be calculated.

Dear Martin,

Thank you for your message and for giving us the opportunity to provide further clarification regarding the circumstances surrounding the account closure.

We would first like to reiterate that the player's account is now permanently suspended and will not be reactivated. We fully acknowledge the importance of maintaining the exclusion once it has been applied.

Regarding the circumstances preceding the final closure, we would like to clarify that the cause of case's extended investigation was caused by uncertain, sometimes contradictory behavior performed by the customer, including:

• Leaving multiple conversations in the middle of a dialogue before they were ended & before the customer received a final answer
• Periodic bonus requests from the customer
• Foul language & obscene wording usage towards Customer Support personnel. Since we have a pretty clear communication policy such cases couldn't be ignored.

During the relevant period, the player engaged in different and, at times, contradictory interactions with our support teams. These included requests concerning account closure, requests for bonuses or other account-related matters, conversations that were ended by the player before the matter could be fully clarified, and subsequent communications containing inappropriate language towards support representatives.

Our support teams nevertheless attempted to maintain a constructive dialogue, de-escalate the situation and determine the appropriate course of action. Our intentions are always transparent &  clear regarding any customer's request, including such as self-exclusion initiatives.

We have to ensure that customer really understands the circumstances and consequences of his decisions & is clear in his demands to any matter.

After we receive a clear demand & confirmation of customer's awareness we procede with the execution (if it follows our Rules & regulations). Since we faced some contradictory behavior on customer's behalf  in multiple cases, that is the only reason why situation's resolve took slightly more time than usual. 

We would also like to clarify our position regarding the information requested regarding the payment history, full interactions with the customer and other requested information. This information is subject to confidentiality obligations, applicable privacy requirements, internal data-protection policies and, where applicable, contractual non-disclosure obligations. Consequently, we are unable to disclose or transmit these records to third parties, including through private channels.

This position does not depend on whether the information would be published publicly. The records remain protected information, and our confidentiality and privacy obligations continue to apply even where the information is requested for the purpose of a private mediation process.

We appreciate that Casino Guru would like to establish the relevant financial consequences and understand the reasons for requesting the transaction history. However, we must comply with our confidentiality and data-protection obligations and therefore cannot provide the requested underlying records.

We respectfully maintain our position regarding the refund request based on the information available to us and the circumstances described above. At the same time, we confirm that the account is permanently suspended and that it will not be reactivated.

We are devoted to further fruitful collaboration with CasinoGuru and the customers.

Therefore, we remain open to constructive & honest feedback in the future.

Kind regards,

Beton.win Casino

Dear casino representative,

Thank you for your cooperation and explanations.

Nevertheless, Casino Guru’s position remains unchanged. The casino confirmed that the player’s previously excluded account became accessible again due to a system error. The player’s later communication, bonus requests, or conduct toward support do not cancel a permanent self-exclusion applied because of a gambling problem.

As the casino is unwilling to compensate the eligible losses or provide the requested transaction records, we will now close this complaint as unresolved due to failed self-exclusion.

Thank you for your time.

Dear CristobalGomez1,

Unfortunately, the casino has maintained its final position and refused to provide a refund.

The casino confirmed that your account had previously been excluded but later became accessible again because of a system error. Once a permanent self-exclusion has been applied because of a gambling problem, it must remain effective unless there is an appropriate basis for lifting it.

Since the casino has refused both compensation and the records needed to establish the eligible net loss, I am closing this complaint as unresolved due to failed self-exclusion. The unresolved complaint will negatively affect the casino’s Safety Index.

In the meantime, I recommend reaching out to the Anjouan Gaming Licensing Authority and submitting a complaint through the website validator you can find in the footer of the casino's website. They have additional tools and options to assist players in these situations. For guidance on how to effectively submit your complaint to the regulator, you can find helpful information at https://casino.guru/submitting-complaints-to-regulators. If you need any assistance with the submission process or receive a response from the regulator, please don’t hesitate to email me at [email protected]

As an additional protective measure, I recommend BetBlocker, a free tool provided by a UK-registered charity. It can anonymously block thousands of gambling websites across multiple devices, either completely or during selected vulnerable periods. Setup is quick, it supports multiple languages, and works quietly in the background. You can also read about Casino Guru’s Global Self-Exclusion Initiative.

Please note that BetBlocker may also block gambling-information websites, including Casino Guru. If you still need access to your complaint or our resources, leave the Casino Guru blocking option unchecked during setup.

I am sorry we could not achieve a more satisfactory outcome.