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On 28-06-22 I sent an email to this casino asking for permanent self-exclusion with no possibility of my account being reopened in the future. At that time I also had an active cool off that expired the following day. Not wanting to lose any more money, I therefore sent a final and permanent self-exclusion request before the cool off expired. In their terms and conditions under "responsible gaming" it is clearly explained that when a player wants to exclude himself for a certain period or forever, he just needs to communicate it to the support via email (see screenshot). Which I did indeed! The support asks me the reason for my choice and I reply that I did not want to lose any more money at the casino and end it forever.

The casino, instead of respecting and complying with my request, offered me through the vip manager a bonus of 200 euros (Rolling 10x) to entice me to play and therefore keep me in their casino. After playing the bonus for some time their purpose has been achieved and I therefore decide to deposit and lose two more deposits for a total of 1150 euros of which I am now requesting a refund which the casino refuses to give me.

Thanks in advance for your help.

In data 28-06-22 ho inviato una mail a questo casinò per chiedere l'autoesclusione permanente senza possibilità che il mio conto possa essere riaperto in futuro. In quel momento avevo anche un cool off attivo che scadeva il giorno seguente. Non volendo perdere ulteriore denaro ho quindi inviato una richiesta di autoesclusione definitiva e permanente prima che il cool off scadesse. Nei loro termini e condizioni alla voce "gioco responsabile" è chiaramente spiegato che quando un giocatore voglia autoescludersi per un determinato periodo o per sempre basta che lo comunichi al supporto via mail (vedi screenshot). Cosa che appunto ho fatto! Il supporto mi chiede il motivo della mia scelta e io rispondo che non volevo più perdere altro denaro al casinò e finirla per sempre.

Il casinò invece di rispettare e assecondare la mia richiesta mi ha offerto tramite il vip manager un bonus di 200 euro (Rolling 10x)per invogliarmi a giocare e quindi trattenermi nel loro casinò. Dopo aver giocato il bonus per diverso tempo il loro scopo è stato raggiunto e decido quindi di depositare e perdere altri due depositi per un totale di 1150 euro di cui chiedo ora rimborso che il casinò si rifiuta di darmi.

Grazie in anticipo del vostro aiuto.

Dear carsix79,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m very sorry to hear about your negative experience. First, I’d like to explain to you what the difference is between closing the account and self-exclusion:

Closing an account is simple and has almost no impact - the player can reopen the account anytime, and the casino has no obligation to the player.

On the other hand, self-exclusion does. This option works as a protection for players with gambling problems. If a player successfully makes a self-exclusion the casino agrees not to open this account or if yes only under particular circumstances (after cooling off period and this cannot be done for players who are addicted/with gambling problems).

From what I can see in the attached screenshots, the casino support asked you to state a reason for closing your account which you did not. If the self-exclusion has not been requested for a reason of gambling problem, we, unfortunately, cannot proceed with this case as failed self-exclusion.

If there is any other message that would help us support you in this case, please forward it to kristina.s@casino.guru, or post a screenshot here.

Thank you very much in advance.

Best regards,

Kristina

Yes, I answered their question as to what the reason for the self-exclusion was and that is that I didn't want to lose any more money. I told both the support and the vip manager! I'm sending you screenshots. What other reason can there be behind a request for a PERMANENT self-exclusion of a player if not that of not wanting to know more about playing and losing money? The fact is that I followed their T & Cs where they talk about responsible gaming:

- If you think you are spending more money than you can afford, or if gambling is starting to interfere with your normal daily routine, we strongly recommend that you consider several measures that can help you, such as setting Personal Limits on your activities gambling, opting for self-exclusion or seeking help and support from trusted independent bodies.

-WHAT IS SELF-EXCLUSION?

The self-exclusion setting informs us that we must take all steps to block your access to your account and ensure that you do not receive promotional material. You can also contact our support team at support@skycrown.com and inform us of your decision to stop gambling on the website for a certain period of time or forever.

It is not even mentioned in these T&C that you have to specify the reason for the request for self-exclusion because it is already implied ("do not spend more money than you can afford .."). The fact is that I mentioned the reason why and instead of understanding the problem and following their T & C's they offered me a bonus to make me change my mind. If this is normal for you ..

This is the history of the emails:

- I ask in Italian for permanent self-exclusion from the support via email

- I ask for permanent self-exclusion in English to the support via email

-after the support asks me if I am sure I confirm by asking again for permanent self-exclusion

- the support asks me the reason and at the same time convinces me to desist with the proposal of a bonus

- I explain that the reason is that I did not want to lose any more money and that I could only accept a substantial bonus (and here I fall into their trap)

-then the VIP manager contacts me at the invitation of the support and she also asks me why and asks me if to change my mind she can offer me a bonus

- I also repeat to her that I did not want to lose any more money

-the vip manager then offers me 200 euro bonus with 10x rollover

Here are the screenshots:

Sì che ho risposto alla loro domanda su quale fosse il motivo dell'autoesclusione e cioè che non volevo perdere altro denaro. L'ho detto sia al supporto che al vip manager! Ti invio screenshot. Quale altro motivo può esserci dietro ad una richiesta di autoesclusione PERMANENTE di un giocatore se non quello di non volerne più sapere di giocare e perdere soldi? Sta di fatto che io ho seguito i loro T&C in cui si parla di gioco responsabile :

 - Se pensi di spendere più soldi di quanto puoi permetterti, o nel caso in cui il gioco stia iniziando a interferire con la tua normale routine quotidiana, ti consigliamo vivamente di prendere in considerazione diverse misure che possono aiutarti, come impostare Limiti personali sulle tue attività di gioco, optare per Autoesclusione o cercare aiuto e supporto da organismi indipendenti di fiducia.

-COS'È L'AUTOESCLUSIONE?

L'impostazione dell'autoesclusione ci informa che dobbiamo adottare tutte le misure per bloccare il tuo accesso al tuo account e assicurarci che non riceva materiale promozionale. Puoi anche contattare il nostro team di supporto all'indirizzo support@skycrown.com e informarci della tua decisione di interrompere il gioco d'azzardo sul sito Web per un certo periodo di tempo o per sempre.

In questi T&C non è nemmeno menzionato il fatto che devi specificare il motivo della richiesta di autoesclusione perché è già sottointeso ("non spendere più soldi di quanto puoi permetterti.." ) . Sta di fatto che io l'ho menzionato il motivo e loro invece di capire il problema e seguire i loro T&C mi hanno proposto un bonus per farmi cambiare idea. Se per voi questo è normale..

Questa è la cronologia delle mail :

-chiedo in italiano autoesclusione permanente al supporto via mail

-chiedo autoesclusione permanente in inglese al supporto via mail

-dopo che il supporto mi chiede se sono sicuro confermo chiedendo nuovamente l'autoesclusione permanente

-il supporto mi chiede il motivo e allo stesso tempo mi convince a desistere con la proposta di un bonus

-spiego che il motivo è che non volevo perdere ulteriore denaro e che potrei accettare solo un bonus sostanzioso (e qui cado nella loro trappola)

-quindi mi contatta la vip manager su invito del supporto e anch'essa mi chiede il motivo e mi chiede se per farmi cambiare idea può offrirmi un bonus

-ripeto anche a lei che non volevo più perdere altro denaro

-la vip manager quindi mi offre 200 euro di bonus con rollover 10x

Ecco gli screenshot :

I followed the procedure as described in their T & Cs in the Responsible Gambling section. I have explained the reason even if it is not necessary. I indicated that it had to be an indefinite (permanent) self-exclusion and on all the sister casinos therefore the maximum coverage that can provide. They should have proceeded to immediate account closure as outlined in their terms and conditions and instead set up the bonus trap to make me desist and stay with them when it is clearly stated in their T&C that the casino should not offer promotional material in case of a request. of self-exclusion.

This is incorrect behavior and contrary to the rules of responsible casino gambling. My refund request is legitimate. My account is also still open.

Io ho seguito la procedura come descritta nei loro T&C al paragrafo gioco responsabile. Ho spiegato il motivo anche se non necessario. Ho indicato che doveva essere un autoesclusione a tempo indeterminato (permanente) e su tutti i casinò gemelli quindi il massimo della copertura che può prevedere. Loro avrebbero dovuto procedere alla immediata chiusura del conto come indicato nei loro termini e condizioni e invece hanno preparato la trappola del bonus per farmi desistere e restare con loro quando nei loro T&C è chiaramente scritto che il casinò non deve offrire materiale promozionale in caso di richiesta di autoesclusione.

Trattasi di comportamento scorretto e contrario alle regole previste dal gioco responsabile dei casinò. La mia richiesta di rimborso è legittima. Il mio account inoltre risulta ancora aperto.

I also have a series of emails with my VIP manager stating that it is normal for the casino to offer an alternative solution to self-exclusion and this complies with their T & Cs.

Then he contradicts himself several times saying that in these cases they cannot offer a bonus immediately and that I would have requested the bonus myself. Which is absolutely false since it was the support before and after she offered me the bonus!

Inoltre ho una serie di mail intercorse con la mia vip manager in cui dichiara che è normale che il casinò proponga una soluzione alternativa all'autoesclusione e ciò è conforme con i loro T&C.

Poi si contraddice varie volte dicendo che loro in questi casi non possono offrire subito un bonus e che lo avrei richiesto io il bonus. Cosa assolutamente falsa dato che è stato il supporto prima e lei dopo a propormi il bonus!

Bonuses cannot be offered right away, an alternative can be. You have then been asked if there is anything we can do for you and you have informed that a bonus offer will change your mind, to which a bonus has been offered.

Kind regards,

Emily

VIP Department account manager

Marco, you have been asked if there is anything we can do to not rush to set up self-exclusion, to which you have agreed. This is always your decision to decline such offers, but it is within our jurisdiction and responsible gaming regulations to offer alternatives.

Kind regards,

Emily

VIP Department account manager

It is our responsibility to investigate the reasons for a decision and propose alternative solutions, Marco.

Kind regards,

Emily

VIP Department account manager

After providing a reason for your desire to set a self-exclusion limit, it was decided to offer to transfer your claim to me, if an interest bonus, to which you have consented.

Kind regards,

Emily

VIP Department account manager

So their common practice when a player explicitly asks him for a permanent self-exclusion in order not to lose more money is to make him change his mind by offering him a bonus knowing that the player accepts in these cases and entices him to play again. Of course I know I should have said no to the bonus but they shouldn't have devised this trap in front of my situation. It is not fair and it does not comply with their Responsible Gambling T & Cs as they claim.

Bonuses cannot be offered right away, an alternative can be. You have then been asked if there is anything we can do for you and you have informed that a bonus offer will change your mind, to which a bonus has been offered.

Kind regards,

Emily

VIP Department account manager

Marco, you have been asked if there is anything we can do to not rush to set up self-exclusion, to which you have agreed. This is always your decision to decline such offers, but it is within our jurisdiction and responsible gaming regulations to offer alternatives.

Kind regards,

Emily

VIP Department account manager

It is our responsibility to investigate the reasons for a decision and propose alternative solutions, Marco.

Kind regards,

Emily

VIP Department account manager

After providing a reason for your desire to set a self-exclusion limit, it was decided to offer to transfer your claim to me, if an interest bonus, to which you have consented.

Kind regards,

Emily

VIP Department account manager

Quindi la loro pratica comune quando un giocatore gli chiede esplicitamente un autoesclusione permanente per non perdere altro denaro è quella di fargli cambiare idea offrendogli un bonus sapendo che il giocatore in questi casi accetta e lo invogliano a giocare ancora. Certo lo so che avrei dovuto dire di no al bonus ma loro non avrebbero dovuto escogitare questa trappola di fronte alla mia situazione. Non è corretto e non è conforme ai loro T&C sul gioco responsabile come invece sostengono loro.

The support continues to ignore my request for self-exclusion by delegating everything to the VIP manager who does nothing. So I can still deposit and lose additional money.

Il supporto continua ad ignorare la mia richiesta di autoesclusione delegando tutto al vip manager che non fa nulla. Quindi posso ancora depositare e perdere ulteriore denaro.

This morning I received an email from my VIP manager Emily offering me a bonus on my next deposit. So despite knowing that I have requested permanent self-exclusion and despite the fact that we have written dozens of emails for the fact that my request has not been respected, the vip manager offers me a bonus on the next deposit !!

Mail translation below:

Hello Marco,

Hope you have a great mood today.

The weekend is coming up, so I just want to ask you if you're going to have fun and try your luck again. To be sure, I have a very good bonus for you that will increase your chances and give you more pleasure while playing. You can redeem 100% up to 800 EUR on your next deposit, Marco. If you are interested please contact me after making a deposit before placing any bets (this is very important) so that I can issue the bonus for you.

Kind regards,

Emily

VIP Department account manager

Stamattina ho ricevuto una mail dalla mia vip manager Emily proponendomi un bonus sul prossimo deposito. Quindi nonostante sappia che ho richiesto l'autoesclusione permanente e nonostante ci siamo scritti decine di mail per il fatto che non sia stata rispettata la mia richiesta, la vip manager mi propone un bonus sul prossimo deposito!!

Di seguito traduzione mail :

Hello Marco,

Hope you have a great mood today.

The weekend is coming up, so I just want to ask you if you're going to have fun and try your luck again. To be sure, I have a very good bonus for you that will increase your chances and give you more pleasure while playing. You can redeem 100% up to 800 EUR on your next deposit, Marco. If you are interested please contact me after making a deposit before placing any bets (this is very important) so that I can issue the bonus for you.

Kind regards,

Emily

VIP Department account manager

Waiting for your collaboration that is late in arriving, I inform you that my account was closed this morning with this absurd meaningless communication from my vip manager:

"Hello again Marco,

I would like to inform you that your account has been closed due to the fact that your complaint differs from the information you provided to me when communicating. "

Now I await the refund of the deposits made after my request for self-exclusion.

Also I would like my messages of this complaint to be made public. There are no sensitive attachments and it is only fair that you know what this casino does when a player requests permanent self-exclusion.

In attesa di una vostra collaborazione che tarda ad arrivare vi comunico che il mio account stamane è stato chiuso con questa assurda comunicazione senza senso della mia vip manager :

"Ciao di nuovo Marco,

Vorrei informare che il tuo account è stato chiuso a causa del fatto che il tuo reclamo differisce dalle informazioni che mi hai fornito durante la comunicazione."

Ora attendo il rimborso dei depositi effettuati dopo la mia richiesta di autoesclusione.

Inoltre vorrei che i miei messaggi di questo reclamo fossero resi pubblici. Non ci sono allegati sensibili ed è giusto che si sappia cosa fa questo casinò quando un giocatore chiede un autoesclusione permanente.

Please note that messages are marked as sensitive as they contain your personal information such as email and name. These messages cannot be and will not be made public. Thank you for your understanding.

I see that even though you requested self-exclusion, you also said that you are willing to stay if the casino offers you a bonus. Sadly, without you clearly stating the gambling problem as a reason for self-exclusion, we cannot consider this to be a proper self-exclusion request, therefore we don't think you are entitled to a refund.

I can only recommend what to do next time to avoid such situations. When applying for the self-exclusion, state clearly the reason why you want your account to be deactivated (gambling problem) and specify the time period. Also, email "Subject" should be clearly marked and easily recognizable as casino support receives many requests per day hence if it’s visibly marked you stand a better chance to have your request granted as soon as possible.

Example:

Email subject: Self-exclusion

Player’s info:

First name:

Last name:

DOB:

Casino login:

Email address:

"Greetings xxx xxx,

I’m writing to inform you that I wish to exclude immediately from this casino and from receiving any gambling related marketing material for a minimum period of xxx months/years (lifetime).

The reason that preceded my decision is xxx

I acknowledge that I will not be allowed to rescind my self-exclusion during this period and self-exclusion cannot be lifted before the end of the agreed period."

Since you mentioned, that your account has already been closed and we don't see any reason for a deposit refund, I am afraid there is not much more we could do for you at this point.

Unfortunately, after gathering all the necessary information we are forced to reject this complaint. Sorry we were not able to help you with this one, but please, do not hesitate to contact us in the future, if you run into any issues with this or any other casino and we will try our best to help.